"I won’t be bullied; I won’t be taken for a ride."

10/04/18 - METAL DISCOVERY - Interview by Mark Holmes

"I’ve trodden this path before, but this time it’s different. The difference is that I’m not scared anymore. I won’t be bullied; I won’t be taken for a ride." (Krow on her return to music after an eight year hiatus)

Krow was vocalist for arguably one of the most culturally significant bands in the history of music, Rockbitch. After years of being subjected to incessant and ugly prejudice, fuelled by ignorance and hypocrisy, for their openly sex-positive ethos, they sadly called time on the band in 2002. An ephemeral stateside rebirth followed, from 2005 to 2008, under the MT-TV moniker, although it wasn't until 2016 when Krow re-emerged onto the scene with brand new music, in the form of her debut album, 'Kromance'. Two years later and we now have the release of her sophomore work, 'Demon, I'. A self-proclaimed style of 'Punk-EDM' sees hard-hitting, looped percussion fleshed out with raw and gritty, anger-fuelled sonic dissonance. And, adorned with Krow's ever-magnificent, wide-ranging vocals, delivering all kinds of refreshingly anarchic provocations through a sense of self-catharsis, the overriding affect is one of unadulterated, emotional power. It provides not only a compelling dose of unmitigated entertainment, but also a sincere blast of sanity and candour within an increasingly fucked up world, where absurdity seems to be ever more the norm. Metal Discovery had a lengthy natter with Krow on the phone, to learn more about her return to music... 


METAL DISCOVERY: Firstly, huge congratulations on ‘Demon, I’. Incredible stuff in terms of production, performance, and composition. Are you satisfied with how it all turned out?


KROW: Thank you very much. Yes, I am. I put a lot of effort into it so I’m quite pleased about it. ‘Kromance’ was the first album out and we were still kind of finding our way on that one. I love some of the tracks on that, but ‘Demon, I’ has really come together and I think some of the messages, as well, are quite heavy. I guess I wanted to go for a kind of really heavy, grainy sound to it.

In punk, you’d usually have two guitars really going for it; nasty and dirty. And, obviously, I don’t use that in EDM so, I thought, how can I do this? I want to make this as big and nasty as possible. So, basically, I used all of my analogue sounds I added in; to stick in that graininess. And then, we basically brought in stock loops and wrote everything there. Then I took it to Bad Dog, who is the producer and we worked on Pro Tools, and just figured out what extra stuff we wanted to go on there. It’s pretty much a kitchen sink production… [Laughs]… but I quite enjoy it!


MD: I think it’s got a great balance between the polished and the grit. The grit comes out, but in a polished kind of way.


KROW: Yeah.


MD: In a similar way to how The Prodigy combine those elements, I guess.


KROW: The Prodigy are one of the bands I really love. They’re kind of one of my heroes. When we came away from Rockbitch and wanted to do something else, I kind of thought, I just want to do a completely different thing. And I kind of decided that I also wanted it to be music that I really fucking liked. There’s a lot of music that, to me, just doesn’t get me there. I need something double busy; I need something to take my mind off of life, if you see what I mean.

Even when I’m going to a gig, I’ve got to have a show; I’ve got to be seeing a show, because, otherwise, I find it a little bit boring. I need to be taken away from normal life and all of your problems. I like to really immerse myself in there. And, if there’s a band up there, and they’ve spent all that time working on their music and they’re now projecting it out on stage, I also like to be old school about it; I like to give them my full attention, and not stand there with a phone, taking a film of it so I can watch it back later on. I like to fully immerse myself. I guess I’m kind of old school, as far as that’s concerned.


MD: Yeah, it’s escapism what you’re describing there, I guess.


KROW: Absolutely.


MD: Being in the moment and feeling the emotions of it, which is what engaging with any good art should be all about, be it music, a painting, a film, or whatever.


KROW: Yeah, absolutely. It’s entertainment and so you should be entertaining.


MD: So, you mentioned Bad Dog, which is Finn, I gather?


KROW: That’s correct, yeah.


MD: On the back cover to the album, he’s credited with co-writing and co-producing, so what did each of you bring to the table?


KROW: Well, I start off. I bring in stock loops and I write all of the lyrics and the vocals, and I do the actual structure of the song. And, then, I take it to Finn, he’ll stick it on the Pro Tools, and that’s when he brings in the synths and the analogue sounds. So, we kind of work it that way. And we just figure out what way it’s going and what it’s trying to say to us, to try and breathe life into it… [Laughs] 


MD: Which obviously works very well… the evidence is there on the album! The cover is very striking, with all the henna painted on your body, so who was responsible for that fine artwork?


KROW: Well, they’re actually transfer tattoos! We did a photoshoot and the lovely lady who came along did it. It took about three hours to get them all on me. Quite a long photoshoot. But it was lovely and, the weirdest thing was, I couldn’t get them off! You know, they say, “Oh, just rub a little bit of oil on it”, and, so, I tried that and they were not coming off. I got the weirdest of looks when I went down the local pub! Bless them. At least they knew me and know that I’m an artist, so it wasn’t surprising, but it was a little bit odd for the people with their dogs that came in for a pint! [Laughs]


MD: A few eyebrows raised but not the entire pub!


KROW: Yeah!  [Laughs]


MD: So, what reignited your desire to return to making new music once more, as I gather 2016’s ‘Kromance’ EP was the first thing you’ve done, musically, since MT-TV called it a day in 2008?


KROW: 2008, that’s right, yeah, so that was ten years ago. What made me want to…? I think what it had been was that MT-TV had been hard on the heels of Rockbitch who, obviously, stopped sixteen years ago… 2002, I think. We’d gone across to the States to do MT-TV… we could have stayed there for as long as we wanted but, to be honest, it was a bit difficult living there with our Pagan tendencies…. let’s just say that. So, we thought, this isn’t the place to settle down.


MD: Too many mad Christians!


KROW: Yeah, exactly, yeah. So, the community then just upped and left in 2008, and we landed in Scotland. I took a kind of hiatus there. Unfortunately, Jo [Heeley] died, our drummer; she died in 2012, so that was quite a heavy time. I mean, she wasn’t even forty. She had really aggressive breast cancer and nobody knew, because she didn’t want to fucking tell anyone that she had it. It was like, for fuck’s sake, and then it was all too late. So, that was sad, and that kind of put a dampener on any creativity. You kind of go through the grieving process and, at that point, Mandy [Smith-Skinner]… I mean, Mandy just couldn’t handle it anymore and she left our community because of it. It was just all too much, you know. A great partner in crime there, and she’s not there anymore.

So, coming up out of that, I guess it was… I think I was just noticing that, for me, music just kind of dumbed down, and society has dumbed down. I’m a really angry person. I’m born of the frustrations and limitations that society’s put on me as a woman, through everyday life and music. And it was like that back then, and it still is now. And that’s the thing, it’s like fucking almost fifteen/twenty years and it’s getting worse, as far as I can see. And I guess, for me… why did I want to come back? I’ll tell you why I came back - I’m not a girl anymore; I am a forty seven year old, perimenopausal woman, and I’ve trodden this path before, but this time it’s different. The difference is that I’m not scared anymore. I won’t be bullied; I won’t be taken for a ride. I think that was my thing; I’m just angry at everything. I’m still angry so I thought, fuck it, I’m just gonna make it really cathartic and sing this shit out. So, I think that’s what a lot of my messages are about. It’s the anger… we’ve become so controlled, it’s very frightening.


MD: Oh yeah, and without knowing. I agree.


KROW: I feel that something or someone has to be out there to change the scales, and that’ll be me, basically. I’m happy to stand there and do it because I’m angry and no one can hurt me, anymore.


MD: Good words! 

[Laughs]


MD: Music’s like your exhaust pipe as a human being, kind of thing? 


KROW: Yeah, I guess so, yeah! [Laughs] But I think it’s what people need, as well. It’s all very well, we’ve all become so touchy-feely and so upset about… you’re not allowed to say anything, anymore, in case you seriously offend someone. It’s great to do therapy and it’s great to talk through things but, at the end of the day, if you’ve just had a shit day, all you want to do is you just want to shout, “Why don’t you fuck off?” 


MD: Yeah, exactly.


KROW: I mean, just go and lose yourself at a gig, so that you don’t have to think about anything. I think that’s the lyrics that I try and put in there. I want people to be able to come along… when you come to my gig, it is certainly not a safe space. If you’re sensitive, don’t come through that door. But, for those people who are looking for an outlet, I can give you that outlet. It’s just fantastic, and you will feel just so much better afterwards. It’s musical therapy, let’s call it that.


MD: I guess that’s kind of the punk ethos of the seventies, some of what you’re describing there.


KROW: Well, yeah, because it’s anti-establishment, basically. And, the whole punk thing, it got the promotion of the individual freedom across. The ironic thing about punk, when it came up in the 1970s, is it actually encouraged women to participate in music. It was in total contrast to the heavy rock and heavy metal scenes of the 1970s. You had The Runaways, The Slits and the Mo-dettes, and they just worked together. I think it’s just gorgeous, the punk subculture. 


MD: Did you ever see Penelope Spheeris’ documentary film, ‘The Decline of Western Civilization’?


KROW: No, I haven’t.


MD: She made three, but the first one is about punk from that kind of era, from a female and male perspective. It’s worth a watch.


KROW: I will watch that. I love the do-it-yourself ethic, as well, of the punk thing. I think that’s probably where Krow comes in, and MT-TV and Rockbitch. We’re a community and we’re still together, that’s the thing. After Rockbitch got turned off, so to speak, we just thought, fuck it, and we just turned in on each other and just loved each other even harder. But, you know, shame on the world; it’s actually got worse. I mean, the other day, there was a ‘Free the Nipple’ rally and everybody had to actually cover their nipples up!


MD: At a free the nipple rally?! What?! [Laughs]


KROW: Seriously, this is just so wrong!


MD: That’s the world fucked up right there, isn’t it, really!


KROW: Yeah! 


"...for those people who are looking for an outlet, I can give you that outlet."

MD: You still have that amazingly powerful, wide-ranging voice, so I’m guessing you’ve made sure to keep it in good shape over the years, despite being away from the scene for so long?


KROW: Truth was, no. After Jo died in 2012, I pretty much, for a good five or six years, I didn’t sing at all.


MD: Wow.


KROW: I didn’t sing at all. It just wasn’t there. But, I’ll be honest, I’m not a person that does my scales and shit like that. I literally just go out and sing; I don’t warm up or anything. My actual warm-up is I drink hot tea for about half an hour and that is it. I guess I’ve just got a really, really freaky voice that does that. So, yeah, I didn’t sing for at least five or six years, at one point.


MD: Wow, and there was me thinking you were going to say, “Oh yeah, I carried on even though I wasn’t doing it publicly…”! I guess voices change with age, too, but yours is in such amazingly great shape, and with all that raw emotion; it’s incredible.


KROW: Thank you. 


MD: And great to hear again, I have to say, after so many years.


KROW: Thank you.


METAL DISCOVERY: I guess dark electronica would be a very general description the music you’re doing now, but you’ve opted to label it as ‘Punk-EDM’. Did you see it as important to have some kind of genre affiliation?


KROW: Well, definitely from the EDM side, because of electronic music. But, the thing with electronic music, it’s quite sparse, actually. You’ve usually got one or two loops that they’re using, and then you’ve got vocals. So, it’s not kitchen-sink, like I’ve done it. But, on the other side of it, I’ve got the aggressive vocals and the aggressive sounds and, for me, I guess that is harking back to punk. For me, I am anti-establishment; I just am. As I say, I’m an older woman; I will not conform and, I guess, a certain part of my history and that, I think that women are natural anarchists because we’re always operating in a male framework… especially in music. So, yeah, I guess that’s why it came across as Punk-EDM.


(Krow on her anti-establishment ethos)

"I think that women are natural anarchists because we’re always operating in a male framework… especially in music."


MD: That makes sense. Although I think you have one of those voices that’s malleable to any genre. As I’ve always said about Brian Blessed, for example, he could read out his own shopping list and it would sound amazing…


KROW: Yeah! [Laughs]


MD: I think you could sing anything and it would sound amazing, if you know what I mean!


KROW: [Laughs]


MD: I think all good, sincere music ultimately transcends any sense of genre affiliation, when it’s digested as an emotional experience… as I was saying earlier, I guess… which I think is how I’ve experienced your music. It’s so emotionally powerful, that style becomes secondary. Is this how you hope people will connect with your music? You know, it’ll attract people from the punk and EDM scenes, but I think it’s a very powerfully emotional experience, regardless of genre.


KROW: Yeah, it is, anyway and, with the stage show, more so, because I’ve got costumes that I use in that. To be honest, I just wrote it for myself. I’ll be honest, I wasn’t writing it for anyone; I was writing it for myself and, when I’ve had a few glasses too many, I want to put something on really loud, and I want to really enjoy myself, and I want to be taken somewhere else. That’s how I wrote the music, and that was my intent, for myself. The fact that other people like it is a bonus. It’s a real bonus, I’ll be honest! [Laughs]

And, here’s the thing - I guess, in the message, I think it can be transported across to all different age groups and genres because of the messages against society. You know, ‘Demon, I’ is about older women; older women who are no longer seen. They’re no longer breeding so, as far as that’s concerned, they’re out of time. And, that’s why I sing, “I’m not afraid” and “I am devil-made” because, as far as that’s concerned, you are devil-made. You then become a sorcerer as far as the superstitions of our society are.

‘Sexmenco’ is about rough lesbian sex, which I’m sure a lot of groups would be up in arms about the fact that I’ve just said “rough lesbian sex”. Well, that’s who I am and I wrote it for myself and, if you don’t like it, go and buy a different album. The world is so bloody big… do you know what I mean?... [Laughs]… you don’t have to sit there slagging mine off! [Laughs]


MD: Exactly! People like to be hyper-critical of things they have no interest in, in the first place.


KROW: Yeah, and I think ‘Headmonsters’ is also… it’s about mental health. It’s one of those things, at the moment, it’s very high in the media. But, it’s not just about mental health… it’s also, for me, I wrote that about my own periods and the fact that, when you have a really bad period, fuck me, you are locked into your mind, that is trying to do summersaults and, all you want to do is get away… and you just can’t. It’s so hormonal. And, I guess, I would say it’s the same, but you guys have the same thing once you’re locked in with the testosterone rush. Do you know what I mean? You get that red mist and that’s it. And, for me, ‘Headmonsters’ is about that. It’s about the really bad ones.

But, I also do have a lot of fans who come up and a few of them have been abused as kids, and they said it really helps them to listen to that; just to be able to sing it and just shout it out and get it out, because the music’s so fucking loud. And, also, they say that they don’t feel alone and that’s just really sweet. It’s nice to know that you’re helping someone.


MD: It’s kind of like a mutual catharsis, I guess, in that sense.


KROW: Yes.  


MD: Obviously, you said it’s cathartic for you, but other people are experiencing catharsis along with you.


KROW: Yeah, absolutely. And, I think the thing is, doing it to music, it’s not all…. I don’t know… let’s draw a circle and what do we feel about that? You don’t have to cover your way through stuff; you can just shout your way through stuff.


MD: Which is a very cathartic thing in itself!


KROW: Yeah! [Laughs] Absolutely.


MD: I read in a recent online interview, to quote you, you said, “It’s time for me to rip a new arsehole in the flabby safety net of modern life!”


KROW: [Laughs]


MD: Which is amazingly well put! So are you wanting to pull the rug from under the sugar-coated, Disney world that’s sold to kids, with its perennial sense of perfect closure, and show everything for what it really is; to make people think about stuff on a more profound level?


KROW: Yeah, I think, in general, we’ve gone backwards. Everything’s so safe and so tame now. We have become a nanny state. I guess with Rockbitch, you kind of thought, “Oh, well, there’s a reason for that”, but you’ve got to remember, with RB, everything we did, it was over 18s entry, okay… over 18. Now, when you’re eighteen, you’re supposed to be an adult and you’re supposed to make your own choices, right. Unfortunately, the councils and the higher powers that be, decided that, “Fuck that, no… I don’t care if there are eighteen year olds, if there are adults, who want to go and see this band, they’re not allowed to.”

So, that was back then. Oh, it’s even worse now. And it’s just disturbing that so many people are just sitting back and not doing anything about it. You know, we’ve just got to be little good consumers; feel the same thing; we’ve gotta be polite about any old shit and, above all, we’ve got to be nice to each other. And that isn’t for me. That’s so not for me. And, I’ll be honest, I don’t bother talking to people, anymore; they’re just so disappointing. There’s, pretty much, nothing there. So, yeah, I do just sing it out instead. And you’ve got social media… social media is vile… fuck me…


MD: Good words! Facebook, it’s the closest it’s come to finishing, at the moment, with the current data abuse scandal… I’m like, yeah, get rid of Facebook, and then people can retrieve so much time of their lives… but I guess they’d just jump on the next social media bandwagon and become mindless zombies on there.


KROW: Yeah, exactly, it is. And you get the trolling that goes up and it’s such a sad world we live in. It really is.


MD: It is. People have become so solipsistic with the whole thing, where they’ve become the centre of their own little social media world and not really looking beyond that. It’s a very short-sighted way to exist.


KROW: Yeah, we need to encourage some spinal growth, at some point!

[Laughs] 


MD: Absolutely!


KROW: Otherwise, we’re gonna o backwards. We’re gonna go back into the water and never come back out again!

[Laughs]


MD: I think we’re heading back towards Mediaeval times, so I think, in 500 years’ time, we’ll be back in the Mediaeval period!


KROW: [Laughs] I agree on that one! 


MD: Probably for the better… and then everything can be built from the ground up again and not invent shite like Facebook!


KROW: [Laughs]


MD: You have a good few shows coming up, including a masked ball in Whitby that looks like a tasty little event. Is that something you’re looking forward to?


KROW: Yeah, absolutely, so much looking forward to that. Just the dressing up, darling, it’s gonna be wonderful! And just the fact that the whole… I mean, I’ve been to Whitby quite a few times, but to go there for the event and to be invited for the event is just like kudos for me. I’m really, really excited. And it’s just gonna be lovely to see the whole town transformed into goths. I’ll probably go up to the castle, you know…


MD: Oh yeah, up by the Abbey; up the 199 steps…


KROW: Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. I’ll probably just go up there and look out and see if I can see Dracula!  [Laughs]


MD: Are you going to announce any further shows for the rest of the year or is it just what you’ve got booked now?


KROW: So, what we’ve got booked for now is what we’ve got, but we’re actually working on a second phase, at the moment, and we should be releasing those, I think, in two or three months’ time. We’re also working on some new material, as well. So, yeah, it’s fun. I’m having fun, which is lovely! It’s nice to be in a band where I can enjoy the music again, if you see what I mean.


MD: Definitely. You kind of touched on this earlier, but blurb on your website talks of “an unmissable conceptual stage show”, so what can people expect from a live Krow performance?


KROW: Well, the live performance, it kind of goes through… I’ve got three main characters. One is, obviously, the female; the woman, but with the horns, so, obviously, she’s from the darker side. I usually start off with her. My second image is I have a bloody period dress that I wear, and a lot of those songs that we do in that particular moment on stage are to do with mental illness. Then we have, also, a witch’s outfit, basically, because one of the songs we did was ‘Hallelujah’, from the previous album, and that was an ode to the witches that died. I just felt that, being Pagan, I needed to get it out there and sing “Hallelujah” to them… obviously, not in Christian form!

[Laughs]


KROW: So yeah, that, basically, is the rough thing. I mean, at 140 bpm, this show only lasts for fifty minutes because, as you can appreciate, that is some serious going; it is double busy.


MD: Oh yeah, intense, I guess.


KROW: But it’s good. If you’re feeling saggy at the beginning, you are up there at the end!


MD: [Laughs] I need to get myself to one of these shows, very soon!


KROW: [Laughs] 

"I remember Babe being fingered and her wanking off for one of the segues. It was beautiful..."

(Krow on a masturbatory segue from Rockbitch's 'Motor Driven Bimbo')

METAL DISCOVERY: Rockbitch and MT-TV always had a strong conceptual element to the live shows, so are you a firm believer of marrying performance with music, so that one reflects the other, to help convey your messages in a more potent way?


KROW: I am, yes. I believe that, if you’re entertaining, to entertain people, you have to put on a show for somebody. And, so, I quite like the theatrics of that. I think it just gives another element to the show, as opposed to just sitting there with a guitar, singing a song. I think it gets across who you are and your message, just a lot stronger. And I think, in a theatrical thing, as well, you do get to just forget. Before you know it… you’ve forgotten about your bills and the fact that your boss was shit to you, earlier on. And, you know, I think that’s just wonderful. It's wonderful to give people time off. 


"I remember Babe being fingered and her wanking off for one of the segues. It was beautiful because the sound engineer had to mic her up!"


MD: That’s the best kind of gig, to lose yourself in completely. For me, Rockbitch were, and will always remain, one of the most unique, sincere and culturally significant bands in the history of music. But, back in the day, there seemed to be some sort of modern day witch hunt with all kinds of nasty prejudice directed your way. How do you reflect back on those times now?


KROW: Yeah, they were hard times. The worse thing of it was the closing down. We never got to finish it, if you see what I mean. It was just the tactics of last minute cancellations that inflicted maximum financial damage on us. So there were countries we lost, I think, forty four dates in one go, and twenty dates in another go. The last tour we were gonna do… I didn’t know it was the last tour… we suddenly lost nine dates, and that was on a Friday afternoon, so there was no recourse with the council. It was just, that’s it, money gone, you know, because you’re already half way down the fucking M6. So, as far as that was concerned, it was hard.

I mean, it was a fantastic time. I’ll be honest, I wasn’t really the… you know, it was Babe that was the political speaker and very concise about politics. I loved doing it, and I loved doing the theatrics, and I loved representing the community and sexuality; our female, sex-positive stage show. But, when the authorities came out, that was just hard and it was just shit.

I’ll be honest, in coming back, that was the weird thing for us; we realised that it’s still music dominated by men. The actual culture is still dominated by men. I think it was only in 2015, we looked at all the major festivals… you must’ve seen it, the massive gender imbalance.


MD: Oh, it’s crazy, yeah. Totally crazy.


KROW: So, in 2016, we decided to put together our own festival, called PandoraFest. We did it completely, and it was privately paid for by us… we’re still paying off fifteen grand on that. Still in debt on that one. But, we did it because just to show that, actually, it could happen, and you can have women on stage and it’s not a problem. Somebody said to us, “Speak to the funding people and they will definitely give you the money next year.” So,we approached them for funding for 2017, then someone told us on the back hand that, “Yes, it’s all going to a Scottish film company that they’re setting up.”

The bias is still there and that’s the weird thing, for me, it’s actually got worse, I think. It’s almost gone backwards from RB. We thought that was bad but, now, I look at stuff and the Venus of Willendorf, it’s an old statue and it was banned on Facebook. They banned this statue and they actually put a bikini on it to cover up stone boobs and a stone vagina!


MD: That’s a step too far!


KROW: It’s just people running amok! [Laughs]


MD: So, if Rockbitch were around today, or a band like Rockbitch, do you think it would be worse, then?


KROW: Oh, you couldn’t have Rockbitch playing today, no way. Absolutely no way. Society is just… we would go down so badly. The feminists, I’m sure, would come out… and I’ll be honest with the feminists, until they recognise sex workers, then they can go and fuck off. I am a woman who knows her own sexuality; nobody will tell me what to do in my own bedroom; nobody will tell me what to do. And, likewise, I won’t put my thoughts onto other people. If they wanna come into my gig, then I can tell you my thoughts, that’s fine; but, other than that, you can just look the other way.

But Rockbitch, there’s no way we’d play now. It has seriously gone backwards. Just from the social media point of view, you couldn’t do it, anyway, because we used to have locked down gigs where there were no photographs allowed. So, straight off there, you couldn’t do anything because of all the phones that everybody’s bringing.


MD: That’s an unfortunate plague at gigs, isn’t it, mobile phones.


KROW: It is. It’s a little bit depressing. Sometimes, I kind of like think, “Oh, that’s sweet, I hope they show that to somebody else.” But, at the same time, I’d rather they just enjoy it.


MD: For me, I think part of the problem with the world is that so many people generally think in binary terms, so everything has to be black or white, right or wrong, feminine or masculine, female or male. There’s little consideration for everything in-between, and I think it’s wrong when people genderise everything - like, all women think this and all men think that. Do you think the world would be a better place if people were always considered as just people, free from gender and other delimiting social filters?


KROW: I think that’d be better, if we just saw each other as people, but I think it’s all gone too far. I think, at the end of the day, even the little babies that beautiful women have, who do give birth, we are just creating really frightened people. They don’t know whether to fucking sit or stand. It is chaos. It’s the Kali Yuga. It’s just life gone mad. It’s difficult for somebody, now, to be in the moment, if you see what I mean. Social media has ruined a lot of family spirit, I would say.


MD: Yeah, that’s a good way of putting it.


KROW: Spontaneity, as well. Everyone’s waiting for the next email. You know, it’s a wonderful thing, social media, but when you’ve all gone down to the pub and there’s six of you sat around the table just staring at your phones, that is really sad.


MD: Yeah, I’ve been in those situations… and quickly get out of those situations, to be honest… 

[Laughs]


MD: Not a good bunch of people to socialise with if they're staring at their phones… well, socialising being an inoperative word in that sentence!


KROW: Yeah!


MD: Going back to Rockbitch, ‘Motor Driven Bimbo’ remains in my top ten albums of all time… I’m being totally sincere when I say that, as well, as I genuinely believe it’s stood the test of time. A timeless classic! How do you actually regard that album now?


KROW: I love it. I absolutely love it. It was good doing it; it was hard work doing it, I remember, but I think it was just something that we all enjoyed. And I remember Babe being fingered and her wanking off for one of the segues. It was beautiful because the sound engineer had to mic her up!

[Laughs]


MD: That was towards the end of the album, wasn’t it, at the end of the penultimate song.


KROW: Yeah, and it was just wicked to see his face! He had to come in and he was all professional as he had to place it near her vagina!

[Laughs]


KROW: And, “Oh no, it’s not loud enough, I’ll just move it a bit closer.” You know, bless! But we had a really good time on that, and it’s nice to know that it’s still out there and it’s still appreciated by people.


MD: Oh, absolutely, yeah. So, the final thing I wanted to ask then - if there’s one thing you could change to make the world a better place right now, what would it be?


KROW: I would put women in charge. 


MD: Good answer! I think that would make the world a better place.


KROW: It’s no disrespect to men, at all, but women give birth; they understand the pressures; they understand what it takes to create a life. And I think that they wouldn’t be so quick to go to war. And I think we multi-task a lot better. Here’s the thing, I think guys are fantastic but, again, it’s what we were saying about society, at the moment, they have been marginalised. You can’t be a man-man, anymore. I love a man-man; you know, get your muscles out, rahhh! But, at the same time, I just think a woman would run the place so much better.


MD: Absolutely. Unlike wig-wearing, fascist clowns like Trump.


KROW: We would rather work together, to find something, than just go to war straightaway because he looked at him wrong in the street. That’s not a way to live and we live in fear. And, you know, men are hierarchical and women work together in groups. That’s why we live in our community. You know, we’re still there, all these years later. It wasn’t a phase and, sometimes, it’s just sad looking at the world outside our windows.


MD: Yeah, and your commune still being together is the living, breathing proof of what you’re saying. To perpetuate it all these years is amazing and that’s what people should be looking towards.


KROW: Yes!


MD: Good closing words!


KROW: [Laughs]


MD: Okay, thank you so much for your time, it’s been a real pleasure chatting.


KROW: Thank you very much, it was a good interview. 


ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS

Thanks to Lesley Green for offering and arranging the interview